Curse

catharsis · Jul 07, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I'm thinking about starting up a Mo/R, specifically because it unlocks the skills my other toons don't. So let me preface this by asking you not to waste your time spouting off about how a Mo/Me would be more useful, and rangers suck and blah blah blah.. It's gotta be a Mo/R or R/Mo, but I'm leaning towards the former.

How useful do y'all suppose a monk trapper would be? The basic idea behind the build is to load up on monk skills, and then keep barbed trap and a wilderness dodge skill. Lay a trap wherever it is I intend to cast. If anybody comes and triggers it, run away from the now-bleeding and crippled opponent(s), set up another trap and repeat.

Anybody play this sort of build? I have effectively zero experience with rangers AND monks, so I'm wondering how viable it would be..

Nash · Jul 07, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Umm... Mo/R to use traps, a type of skill that gets costs affected by the best primary in the game - Expertise? R/Mo, thanks.

sino-soviet · Jul 07, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Begin by asking yourself this question - What would I get as a monk primary that I would not get as a Ranger primary?

Izzy Izumi · Jul 07, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

You become a target in which PvP Interrupt Rangers become the fodder of, or just long range attacks in general. I'd stick with R/Mo, and smite or heal in the back when needed.

Neo-LD · Jul 07, 2005, 12:50 AM // 00:50

The only wilderness dodge skill is dryders defenses. All the others come from expertise.

Laying a trap barbed or dust trap underneath you will certainly ruin any warriors day if they come to attack you- if you can lay it down in advance. But, you dont have epertise and they cost 15 and 25 mana, respectively. As a primary monk, you wont get a free moment once the battle is joined. I doubt the other team would let you cast further traps.

Most Mo/Rs that I know of use a combo that makes them known as "melandrus monks". Melandrus Resilience + Draw Conditions = Cures all Conditions the entire team suffers, balances your HP, and gives you alot of energy. Others use Pets, but stop once they find that if their pet dies they cant heal for 10 seconds, which is usually fatal. Dont think Ive ever seen a marksmanship Mo/R, though.

Tellani Artini · Jul 07, 2005, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Dont think Ive ever seen a marksmanship Mo/R, though.

The only bow skills I can see helping a monk happen to be both elite and dependant on expertise; marksman's wager and oath shot. Ferocious strike.. not worth the skill slots or the elite, when there are so many excellent monk elites out there.

As for R/Mo, equip a +5 energy bow and druid's armor and chain cast ahoy: Healing seed/aegis/convert hexes/pacifism/shielding hands/smite hex, serpent's quickness, oath shot, repeat. All slow recharge skills that can be used on demand. Or just maintain some protection enchants and use marksman's wager or ferocious strike to keep your head above the water.

Oh, there's pin down if you want to spend 15 energy for a fairly short period of cripple on an annoying warrior. Also see the elite crippling shot, which requires no marksmanship for a constant 15 second cripple for 10 energy. Even better, a 25 energy concussion shot to daze that annoying air elementalist while he's trying to get you with thunderclap. That'd surprise em. And run you out of energy fast.

You might consider a few points into wilderness survival for serpent's quickness, one skill that can help just about all classes.

catharsis · Jul 07, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Begin by asking yourself this question - What would I get as a monk primary that I would not get as a Ranger primary?

Divine favour. Plus, I actually rather dislike ranger primaries. I find them dull. Really, the idea is to go almost pure monk, and I'm fine with PURE monk too if none of the ranger skills fit - but I do want them unlocked for PvP. Anyway, I went Mo/R.

Thanks for the suggestions.. The Melandru's monk is a good idea.. of course, being Elite, I'll need something else in the interim.. Anyway, it kinda reminds me of the M/N Draw Conditions/Plague Sending combo. With regard to traps, I think you're right that Dust Trap is MUCH too expensive, but Barbed is not, and it's more useful with regard to what I want. 15e should be affordable for a monk at the beginning of the fight, no?

Dryder's looks good.. Long recharge though. Serpent's quickness looks like it'd be especially useful for a smiter.

Nash · Jul 07, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by catharsis

Divine favour. Plus, I actually rather dislike ranger primaries. I find them dull. Really, the idea is to go almost pure monk, and I'm fine with PURE monk too if none of the ranger skills fit - but I do want them unlocked for PvP. Anyway, I went Mo/R.

You pick professions based on anything else than effectiveness? If so, why are you even asking for strategy input?

Quote:

Originally Posted by catharsis

Thanks for the suggestions.. The Melandru's monk is a good idea.. of course, being Elite, I'll need something else in the interim.. Anyway, it kinda reminds me of the M/N Draw Conditions/Plague Sending combo. With regard to traps, I think you're right that Dust Trap is MUCH too expensive, but Barbed is not, and it's more useful with regard to what I want. 15e should be affordable for a monk at the beginning of the fight, no?

Traps are wasted on a healer, play a healer, or play a trapper. If trapper, Ranger primary.

Somehow I have a feeling this is all a waste of time, as you're just gonna ignore it and go with your "fun" build anyway.

catharsis · Jul 07, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

You pick professions based on anything else than effectiveness?

You don't? How empty and boring your life must be

Quote:

Somehow I have a feeling this is all a waste of time, as you're just gonna ignore it and go with your "fun" build anyway.

Maybe I should rephrase.

I've made a Mo/R, as I mentioned, not because I think it's an effective combination, but because I need to unlock monk and ranger skills and felt like playing a monk. I think traps would be a decent pick from the ranger skill set to keep my monk alive. So I post and ask for advice. I learn that traps are probably not a good idea for a monk. Noted. I'll still probably try them out at some point to see how it works, because I'm not the type that blindly accepts "conventional wisdom", but now I have a better idea of what a Mo/R can do, and traps may or may not be part of it.

I thought this was a helpful thread for me.. If you didn't, that's your prerogative, but I don't get where the disdain is coming from.

silvertemplar · Jul 07, 2005, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Im a Mo/R , what am i missing?

1. Ignite Arrow/Apply Poison = Wilderness Survival
2. Stormchaser = Wilderness Survival [25% speed for 8+ seconds]
3. Healing Spring = Wilderness Survival
4. Serpents Quickness = Wilderness Survival
5. Flame/Dust Trap = Wilderness Survival
6. Barbed Trap = Wilderness Survival

...Now who got more energy? Ranger or Monk?[ for the record i have 50 energy and havent entered the desert yet] Expertise lowers the energy cost, but Monk gets more energy + regen last i check = balance out?

Im talking PvE though. PvP well, who cares :P

I tried beastmastery, but the pet skills take up too many skillslots [charm + comfort] without delivering. Wildernes survival has been ideal. If i dont do traps, i pick up a bow and use apply poison+ignite arrows+dual shot .... I have the mana to do it, especially to initiate a battle.

Glasswalker · Jul 07, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by catharsis

because I'm not the type that blindly accepts "conventional wisdom"

Hmm. I don't know if you are going to fit in around here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by catharsis

I thought this was a helpful thread for me.. If you didn't, that's your prerogative, but I don't get where the disdain is coming from.

Please ignore Friend Nash. He can get a little ornery sometimes, but he means well.

When reading the advice on these boards, I am often reminded of a screensaver a friend used to have. It just had 4 words streaming across the screen: "Specialization is for insects". When you fit the mold of how a given architype should behave, then the standard ways of dealing with you all apply. When you do something a little different, people will have to think a bit before they can deal with you.

The Warrior sees you healing and will charge. The Mesmer will try to drain your energy. The Warrior will run into your trap(s) and yell, WTF! You whip out your bow and poison him, or set him on fire, etc. And you've gotten a Mesmer working on you too, so he isn't hitting the other Monk so hard (with this build, I hope there IS another Monk...). Yes, for the love of Pete, try it out (and maybe try it 5 different ways before you decide it's worthless).

For what it's worth though, Nash has a point when it comes to your teammates expectations. If they don't know what you intend, they will be as slow to react as your enemies. Let that be a warning to you. Communicate!

Glasswalker · Jul 07, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

(Sorry all for the double post...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

Im a Mo/R , what am i missing?

Um, monk skills? But then I'm assuming you plan to use them... Going Monk primary is taping a bullseye to your head. You will need to do something monk-like to justify your place on the team, or you will just get targetted immediately and die quickly. I would highly recommend switching primaries (then go high expertise -- look it up if you don't know why), or removing 2 or 3 Ranger skills and filling up with Monk. A Smiting Ranger might be fun -- use the search up above to research that combo, but Healing or particularly Protection would probably do you better.

Secondly, Apply Poison and Ignite Arrows are both preparations. Casting one will negate the other and just waste energy.

Kishin · Jul 07, 2005, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

Im a Mo/R , what am i missing?

1. Ignite Arrow/Apply Poison = Wilderness Survival
2. Stormchaser = Wilderness Survival [25% speed for 8+ seconds]
3. Healing Spring = Wilderness Survival
4. Serpents Quickness = Wilderness Survival
5. Flame/Dust Trap = Wilderness Survival
6. Barbed Trap = Wilderness Survival

...Now who got more energy? Ranger or Monk?[ for the record i have 50 energy and havent entered the desert yet] Expertise lowers the energy cost, but Monk gets more energy + regen last i check = balance out?

Im talking PvE though. PvP well, who cares :P

I tried beastmastery, but the pet skills take up too many skillslots [charm + comfort] without delivering. Wildernes survival has been ideal. If i dont do traps, i pick up a bow and use apply poison+ignite arrows+dual shot .... I have the mana to do it, especially to initiate a battle.

So basically, what you are/want to be is just a Ranger with worse armor and a tattoo on your head? You're not going to have the energy to manage healing and Rangering at the same time.

And as for the surprise factor, that will last approximately 5 seconds (and it may not be a surprise factor so much as a laugh factor) before your acting like a Ranger in caster armor draws the ire your opponents (who in PvP are targetting you because you look like a Monk, or in PvE because you have low armor). Elementalists in particular will devastate you, whereas if you were Ranger primary doing the same things you want to do now, you'd have a lot more protection against them.

I applaud your efforts, but you are trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

silvertemplar · Jul 07, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

hmm

I currently have

Healing Prayers : 11
Divine : 11
Wilderness Survival : 8

..i think i can heal quite alot...

[as for the skills listed, thats is not what i use .....that is just what is in wilderness survival to pick from]. My current PvE setup is:

Orison/Dwayna
Heal Other
Heal Area/Healing Spring
Barbed Trap
Ignite Arrows/Apply Poison [sometimes use this slot to throw in Dodge/Stormchase]
Rebirth
Healing Seed
Divine Boon

Sometimes i throw in Stormchaser+Mending+Serpent's Quickness if i think i'll have to run somewhere.

Jczech · Jul 07, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

I don't see why the OP should go R/Mo over Mo/R. First reason, rangers are usually neglected, why would they take a ranger when a regular monk could do the job better (with divine favor)? Second reason, the OP basically wants to be a monk, just using their secondary profession *gasp* to complement their first.

PvE wise, I think it's smart. Most enemies will charge you when they see you healing, so when they get to you, you can get away and, being crippled, they won't chase you. Also Storm Chaser falls under Wilderness Survival, so if things turn ugly you can run away and rebirth everyone. And, although 2 of your 8 skills are set to keeping yourself alive, that still leaves you with 5 places for healing spells, and 1 for whatever raise spell you like. The downside is you don't get barbed trap until much later in the game, though up until then one could always ignore their secondary.

I think it's an interesting idea, and I'll have to see how it works on my monk.

Neo-LD · Jul 08, 2005, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Ok, a Mo/R is not bad if thats the impression your getting, but using traps is not the way to make him good. Im not sure how much more blunt we can be about this: Ranger primaries are better trappers than Monks. They have expertise and better armor, for one. Traps are expensive, the only useful defensive ones cost 15 or 25, and THERE IS NO WAY a monk can just throw 25 mana away at ANY time. Once the battle begins, you will be constantly targeted meaning that you will almost never finish casting a trap. One arrow of mana regeneration annot make up for expertise, a r/mo can cast about 3x as many traps as a mo/r.

Now the only way I see it being effective at all is to bring ONLY barbed trap, along with other wilderness skills (melandrus resilience, dryders defenses, etc) Lay down barbed trap before the battle and stand on it. This will be a nasty surprise for any enemy warriors, but remember you probably wont be able to recast and you need to let yourself recharge after you cast barbed trap. It casts as much mana as 3 orisons. At high healing/divine thats a total of 300 health worth of healing that went down the drain to cast barbed trap. Like I said, recharge to gain some of it back before the battle is joined.

Immortal Flame · Jul 08, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

I have a lvl14 Mo/R, and I'm currently using all monk skills since I haven't gotten the ranger skills I want. I'm looking at skills like Melandru's Resilience, Dryders Defenses, Serpents Quickness, Storm Chaser, and possible healing spring. Obviously I can't use too many of these, but in PvP they will be almost invaluable since I am rushed first with physicals and condition/hexes, so these would all help me stay alive under constant focused attack. I also dont recommend traps, you'll only be able to use it once (in the very beginning of a match), and so is kind of a wasted slot that could better be used for a different skill. Gl with your build.

pagansaint · Jul 08, 2005, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Why use healing spring as a monk?

Wouldn't taking an extra trap make more sense?

tactics for that:

set traps, let energy regain.

Stand about 10 feet in front of them. then as you are getting beat on, you walk/run back THROUGH the traps. those following you trigger the traps and you get a few seconds or more of time to either relay a trap or heal to full/regain energy.

Immortal Flame · Jul 08, 2005, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Your right, healing spring isnt a very good idea. No trap is worth the cast time for a monk. Focus on the attack preventions in the wilderness survival line. I'm talking about PvP, by the way. You wont have time to lay more than 1 trap. Of course in PvE, where you wont get attacked, sure go ahead and use as many as you want.

pagansaint · Jul 08, 2005, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Lay them before they come for you, they have a decent duration.

Then walk backward over them and BAM blinded and on fire or on fire/bleeding/crippled